A SLIC Website?
Published by Simon Wheatley July 12th, 2004 in SLICWhen I was asked to do this site, SLIC and I agreed that the website needs to be active, interesting and attractive for current students, and people considering Landscape Architecture as a profession.
It is easily maintained and edited by people without specific Web skills. Students have their say, with a commenting and discussion facility. The site also provides a stunning online gallery for UK Landscape Architecture projects.
Is it as SLIC as it should be? Let us know…
Simon Wheatley is a professional Web Designer and Developer, and has taught on courses in professional presentation for Landscape Architecture at the University of Gloucestershire. Contact simon@simonwheatley.co.uk.
Dear Simon,
In the current “Landscape “ there is a piece about the web site. Mr Dai Lewis invites comments, but there was no email given and I do not find his email on the SLIC site..
Why not add a hyperlink connection to the Concrete Society in respect of their September summer school rather than relying just on Allen Haines’ email.
Comments are:
1) I tried to access the website on my Ibook at home and couldn’t. So view it now from a rather mundane pc. Are you Apple Mac compatible?
2) On looking at the comments page I see Mr Wai has asked two questions, that about how to join SLIC has not been answered. I suggest the answer to the question of what SLIC is should be addressed in terms of an answer to him. Presumably there is no membership as such (but why not change the organisation to also become a students organisation affiliated with the LI) and students should become student members (?15) of the LI in which case the intro to the web site should also make that clear.
3) Last week I wanted to write to the Chair of SLIC and not knowing who the current chair was I first tried to find that on the LI web site, did not notice your new web site hyperlink and so ended up ringing the LI to find out. However, as I read it if I had accessed your website I would not have found the information. I suggest you add a list of the current members of SLIC and the officers on the web site.
4) I run the post grad landscape programmes at the University of Greenwich so I keen to help, so amplification in this way would mean that one only needs to give the slic website and the name of the Greenwich rep.
5) I suggest is would be useful to have a hyperlink with the ELASA website http://www.elasa.org
6) It would be good to add a list of design competitions open to students
7) You calendar competition page is out of date as I write 23 July. Who won?
9) I (thought to)attach a copy of the Internship Guide which I edit in case that is useful to you. It is on the Le-Notre and EFLA web sites and is updated and extended regularly.
10) It might be useful if you had the notes of the meetings of SLIC in downloadable form, not very exciting I know but one of the characteristics of student organisations is that active members tend to come and go therefore you need some form of corporate history in order to brief new members,
11) The membership fee for student members of the Landscape Institute is very high ?34. I suggest slic should campaign for a fee of ?15 for student members and that the shortfall be made up by raising the fee of Associate and full members.
12) There is a shortfall of landscape graduates in the United Kingdom, why? I think SLIC should find out
13) Graduates from UK programmes are paid relatively low sums (say c.?20,000 or even less in the South East) for someone who have completed a four year set of programmes and a year out. Graduates in the USA average c. $50,000 which is about ?30,000. Is this the answer to 12)?
14) Please could you pass these comments on to Dai. I suggest you add a general question and answer page as your summer school page to help stimulate something maybe. In fact as it might be useful I will add missive this to your Summer School Q and A in order to get to Dai. Can I suggest you are free to remove it in a couple of weeks because this has gone on a little and the main reason for SLIC is to have a debate by students for students not for young at heart but Newcastle (RIP) graduates from 1971 to dominate your pages.
15) Why not have a list of school websites so students can see something of each others work? Greenwich is http://www.eds.gre.ac.uk/exhibition2004/groups.php?item=dipLandscape
16) Keep up the good work.
17) UK Landscape 20-05 Exhibition: Finally the current first year post grad students at Greenwich are proposing a national exhibition of landscape student work in the first week of July next year, 3-9 July at the Menier Gallery London, on Southwark Street. This is close to London Bridge Station in The Borough and walking distance from the Tate Modern.. There will be space for 100 entries and students have to pay ?10 contribution. The idea is that the each student can contribute 2 A! panels and a model. Exact form, of the panels still to be decided. The idea follows that of London post grad students this year, who had a three day exhibition at Cowcross Street in June. The idea is to a) act as a job market (that is what happened at Cowcross Street b) attract coverage in the national and technical press for new ideas in landscape architecture c) celebrate the culmination of years of endeavour! We (Vaughan Aston and I are writing to all the schools about this and to SLIC and the University of Greenwich has booked the space)
Yours,
Robert Holden
Ps I now see I cannot add an attachment so I will send that separately. The EFLA/Le Notre/ ECLAS internship guide is available also on http://www.efla.org/txt/efla/InternshipEN031215.pdf and is regularly updated and extended (Hungary was the latest addition).
Congratulations SLIC! As a past member it’s good to see the hard word continuing and progressing. I know SLIC is very busy behind the scenes, and this is an ideal way to let others know what is being done, even how we can help! Good luck!
Being a new SLIC member. I want to know what I would get involved in. As a current year out student in London, what sort of activities would i be participating in?
Responding to Robert’s comment. There is indeed a demand for landscape architects in the UK! I think the job market is actually getting better than it use to. Salary expectations have increased since last year. A lack of graduates will subsequently lead to a higher demand for landscape architects in the future, and so no doubt!! may be reflected in the salary.
Just to let Wing know as a slic representative you will attend the 3 or 4 meetings a year which slic hold. You will also be the ‘voice’ of your university so any problems students there are experiencing you can bring them to council and we in turn can get them onto the agenda for the LI. As far as activities are concerned there will be preparations for next years summer school, potential for more student events / competitions which you can actively get involved in setting up. Basically you can get involved in as much as you have the energy for.
Firstly congratulations on getting the web site up and running! The first hurdle is crossed.
You need a Forum!
The main comment I would have is that it is essential to get a forum up and running as soon as possible. I see that Dai mentions that in the article in ‘landscape’ magazine. Comments are great for specific articles etc but soon become confusing for topics such as this.
I agree that SLIC should be looking to encourage and facilitate debate between student landscape architects as it’s primary aim and an online home like this, with active forums, offers an important part of any such strategy. And the debate needs to be ‘OPEN’ in that all topics, whether critical or not of the Landscape Institute, should be welcomed ( within the bounds of acceptable content of course).
Perhaps you can give some indication when a forum could be implimented.
Other comments-
1. As ever Robert provides an excellent and detailed feedback so it is a little sad there is no response to any of his efforts?
In response to some of your comments Robert:
To 1: I am happily reading this web site on my Apple PowerMac G4 with OS 10.3.4 so it appears Mac friendly
I am using Apple Safari v. 1.2.2 as my browser of choice so maybe thats the difference or the OS version.
To 2: From what I understand you have to be a Student member of the LI to be involved with SLIC. From “Minutes of the Inaugural Meeting of the Landscape Institute Student Council (henceforth known as SLIC), 28 February 2003, Institute of Materials” (available on LI web site see other link):
“MW emphasised that all members of the Student Council would need to become student members of the LI, and urged those who were not already members to join as quickly as possible.”
So there is no opportunity for those not wishing or able to pay ?34 annually to the LI.
SLIC is composed only of (elected?) representatives from each landscape school so I am not sure how you ‘join’ as such. I see that Dai has posted a response to Wing’s question but it does not help me understand how students become a rep. I also could not see the comment page you refer to?
I hope someone can post more details of how SLIC is organised.
To 3. see my last response.
To 5: I see that a link has been added to ELASA which is great as ELASA as much to offer SLIC and vice versa. Unfortunately the link is broken here at the moment.
To 10: I agree. Open access to all reports, documents ( like on the LI web site although often not posted in good time) would allow better understanding of SLIC and what is actually going on ‘behind the scenes’. PDF format is most useful and cross platform in my experience.
You can actually find 2 documents for SLIC on the LI web site:
http://www.l-i.org.uk/members/SLIC/01%2028Feb03.htm
You will need a login/password to view it though.
To 11: Personally I have always felt that student membership of the LI should be FREE to encourage as many LA students to become involved at the earliest stage in the LI. Hopefully this will help make the LI more inclusive and dynamic as those students then progress onto full membership.
To 14: It would be a great shame that those no longer enjoying the student life could not find a voice here to Robert
Seriously it will only be as representative of LA students in the UK as those students it can engage, whether through this web site or summer schools etc. And also encourage a broad a debate as possible.
Finally I think it is a shame that there is no mention of previous work done by LA students in the UK before SLIC was created. The Student Landscape Group (SLAG/ SLG) for instance created a similar national network of school reps who met in much the same fashion as SLIC. They received funding from the LI to do so but were not affiliated with the LI which helped it be perhaps more inclusive. It was the SLG that instigated the first ‘Spring School’ back around 1990. A conference organised by the students and was very successful (in Sheffield). They also produced magazines and posters.
Good luck with the web site and in bringing new life into the LI!
Think Simon Lisney has a point there. I am
in theory not really a student this year. ( though I am a year out). But as i mentioned before, wish to participate with SLIC. I think its a good idea for ex-students and current students to participate. Even in some circumstances, to actually have practising landscape architects contributing too, so everyone gets a feel for the profession. Very beneficial to first and second year students. and even prospective students who wish to pursue or are interested in a career in landscape.
Theres also opportunity for us to expand the profession, to those unfamiliar with the subject. Even today, a lot of people still have a lot of misconceptions about our role in society. This may also be part of the reason why fewer people prefer to pursue a career in landscape. Thus, we need to emphasise our importance and values in the built and natural environment.
Hi Simon. We will address any problems people have accessing the site. To help us do that please email me (simon@simonwheatley.co.uk) with details of what you saw, and I’ll get on it asap.
With regard to a forum, as you said it is in our plans, but all in good time.
It’s nice to see there are students who want to get involved Wing.
Until more students, graduates and professionals make the same effort LA will struggle to get it’s voice heard. I am sure you can find a way to be involved. You wont regret it!
Simon W. As I said to Robert it all seems to work fine on my Mac so thats great! The only problem I had was the ELASA link.
Nice design and use of WordPress BTW ;-).
I think, even from this comments section, it shows that a forum would greatly aid a continuing dialogue ( especially for archiving and searching) here and personally I think it should be a priority ( when considering other content).
ps Fast responses! Is there some sort of reply notification here?
Hi to everyone involved in these discussions! I will respond directly to each of you to cover your various points and queries but for now rest assured that I am / will be forcefully campaigning for both a forum for the site (which is going to cost us several hundred pounds if anyone has a couple of quid spare) and a reduction in the rates for student membership. I also feel it would be good to have a forum on the LI site which hopefully will soon look as interesting as this one.
Briefly, in order to become a rep for your school you need to be elected by your peers but in some cases this process breaks down and an individual comes forward to take on the role. MOst important is the willingness of reps to actively participate in what can be time consuming work (running a web site for example!!!)
I hope that starts to answer a few questions, I’m supposed to be working at the moment so must dash but watch this space for more developments
THE LANDSCAPE PROFESSION, AND ITS JOB PROSPECTS.
We are all told at university that job prospects are high at the end, due to a lack of Landscape architects. However, in reality, part 2 and part 3 students are being underpaid (in a large number of cases).
How can we as a committee promote our profession as a rewarding profession, when people are put off by the amount one is getting in the end.
The financial burden of top up fees and student debt, certainly doesn’t help. The question here is, do we deserve to be exploited and underpaid?
I can understand that salary is directly related to the amount of work experience one has. But, after 3 years of academic pressure, surely anything less than the average wage of 17k is wrong, especially in our times, where debt and distortion in the housing market is having a strain on our income.
Indeed, this is also one reason why new students are moving into the legal profession, as opposed to other professions. This is perhaps a biased view, but in general, students want something with good rewards in the end.
If there is a large demand for landscape architects, that in itself should be reflected in the salary as is the case in Asia and America.
This isn’t just about landscape architecture students getting a decent salary, but it is also about attracting more people into the profession. If rewards are low, who on earth would want to become a landscaper?
In response to this, I am suggesting that we start reforming the way students are paid in the profession. ( Of course, this doens’t mean protesting, but more in the mode of strategic boycotting of companies who underpay students and over exploit them)
The approach is intended not to be “rebellious” but actually quite regulatory. all Companies who underpay/ overexploit students too much would be “blacklisted” under a online directory within this site. The full “blacklist” would be consistently updated and sent to Landscape architecture students all over the country, encouraging them to stop applying to them. If the blacklist company agrees to raise standards ( must be evidence), they would be removed from the list.
Companies need not fear this move, so long as they don’t intend to exploit anyone.
I know the above sounds rather harsh, but it is probably one way of forcing certain employers to take action, and to be fair on individuals. In a time, where debt is such a major issue
I’m not sure about ‘blacklisting’ companes via this website but i understand your arguments. I think the LI have to take a key role in this issue and encourage good practices as well as penalising those who tend to exploit. As with any industry there are good and bad companies and I do feel that the good outweigh the bad in ours. I for one am looking forward to finishing my uni years and joining the earning world once more.
just like to comment on a recent scheme which has won an LI award this year. I.e.
Royal Victoria place, Docklands. Recently went there, and thought that more could have been done. Seems the trees ( lined in a grid) appear to be deteriorating, and there seems to be problems with paving, bearing in mind its only been built not long ago.
Nevertheless, thought the flexible “hairpin” like lighters against the linear water feature was quite a good
contrast.
Think I am more concerned about “Royal Victoria Dock bridge”. ( which is near the site) Been there, and was quite surprised how unsafe it is. Seems the decking across the dock leading up to the bridge is deteriorating, even warping considerably. In some places, you can tell that it is almost at breaking point. This isnt just for one small area, it is the entire deck. Hope someone takes a look at it sometime.
Hi there, I’ve just graduated from the post-grad programme in Leeds so I’m technically not a student anymore but I have tried to be active in promoting students/landscape. I also wish to stay in touch to give a hand up and stay fresh.
Well, you?re website is finally up and running: excellent. A good start too, I like these changing watermark backgrounds, and by interesting practices too - marvellous.
I could comment on a number of things but I will choose a couple:
Firstly: the ‘blacklisting’ of practices.
I would have to agree with Dai that ?blacklisting? is a bit severe, it is also negative and retrospective. For Example; ?blacklisting? might help students in future but the scheme will only work if students report back to SLIC/the LI after their year outs are ruined by poor employers (I speak from experience). Practices internal workings and work loads also change rapidly and this can affect internal dynamics and quality of experience. A ?blacklisting? might apply for the previous year but then might be unfair for the next if major changes have taken place. ?Blacklisting? is also ineffectual as some practices don?t take year outs every year?..so information might be out of date
Perhaps a more positive step would be for the LI to accredit employers like it does schools, this is then positive for students as they know what they are getting and positive for the practices as they can say they are accredited (add it to the list of things you put on a tender/expression of interest). The LI might make a quick inspection once a year (before the annual June meet market madness starts), they might discuss a set range of criteria including what the practice intends to offer the student, how they intend to ensure this is delivered (QA) and perhaps pay scales. Perhaps this assessment could also include the practices? response to any serious issues a current year out student might have fed back to the LI via some compulsory short report. Following this a decision could then be made on whether to accredit the practice for the coming year. Yearly might be too expensive or impractical, as might be visiting every practice but there should formal process to ensure issues with year outs are dealt with, I propose the above model as a basis.
My second point is rather shorter. Robert Holden makes a number of points regarding international activities. I met him very briefly in the Netherlands during my ERASMUS exchange in the Netherlands, he seemed to be very knowledgeable about European landscape exchanges, indeed a Belgian guy I was studying with actually knew him from an exchange in France?.Perhaps SLIC might ask him to prepare a guide to study abroad for the website??!!! It can be a minefield as university?s internal exchange departments can be a bit unhelpful and often don?t know the particulars of landscape exchange. I was the only student to do an exchange in my year and internal students are always complaining that us narrow minded English never leave the country! I suppose I am preaching to the converted on this website?..but exchange programmes are an eye opener in so many ways.
Finally 2 things about this message board.:
1: Perhaps a word limit to stop wordy messages from ex-students who have a penchant for convoluted explanations! (It might make the message board more dynamic ? any longer comments could be directed to the webmaster/ could be turned into opinion pieces for the website).
2: I use a number of other forums/message boards which invert the message order so that the latest messages are at the top?.this means that users don?t start trawling through old messages/topics which have been talked through to some degree of resolution, but can delve if they wish.
Thanks for the feedback. I’m going to contact Mike Wetherall, Director General of the LI and ask him to keep an eye on this discussion area an let us know his thoughts about year out quality.
Thanks also for the ideas on the forum, I’m going to try and push for the funding to get it up and running sooner rather than later - I’ll keep you all posted. Also I do have a document from Robert Holden about working abroad and i will get it on this site as soon as i can work out how to do it!
Keep posting comments
Hey Dai,
Is there anything at the moment or coming up soon, which i can help with?
Erm.. not really. If i get anywhere with the message board I will probably ask you to get involved with its maintenance but i need to get prices from the web designer and get funds approved before we get to that stage. Summer is always quiet with slic as many of our reps are not in contact during this period. Relax though, in 6 months time you’ll be so busy with slic you’ll long for a quiet day!;-)
Anyone thinking about national construction week coming up?
1.Student Exchanges: I promise to work with EFLA and ELASA to develop an international guide to student exchange pssoibilities as requested by Danial 8/10/2004 above.
2.Meanhile the best avaiable on-line guides to landscape schools are the EFLA website (www.efla.org) and the Le Notre website (www.le-notre.org). The latter is largely password only but if any students wish to contact me I am avaiable via the EFLA website details. Also of use is the http://www.eclas.org site.
3. There is a guide to New EU countries which I did and was published in Garten+Landscahft in May 2004.
4 The Le Notre/EFLA/ELASA internship guide is also available on the EFLA and Le Notre websites, currently it covers Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria,France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, The Netherlands, Sweden, United Kingdom, USA.
Robert (Holden)
ps I think Daniel Rea may be referring to Roger Seijo in respect of Erasamus exchnges in The Netherlands.
Daniel, in answer to your comment, perhaps it is because Us old LA students still care and have a passion for the profession we studied in, and practice in now. And it is good to see you also enjoy chewing over these important issues. I am not sure a overload of message length is likely to bring this site crashing down
Really quite sad to see this site withering away on the vine ;-(
Who says this site is withering?
Very shortly the discussion section will go live and then lengthy messages will be positively encouraged.
The discussion area will have forums created by us at slic as well as the facility to create your own posts. There will be a section which allows students to ask for assistance with current projects from other students (or professionals) around the country and also a facility for practices to notify students of job opportunities.
Withering we ain’t !!!
If anyone would like to ease the pressure of managing this site (which is no mean feat while studying for a PgDip and trying to earn cash to pay fees) then pop a message here and I’ll see if we can make you a site administrator, that way we even less likely to wither in future.
Wish I have the time, but perhaps not. By the way, I am finally a SLIC rep. yippee. Looking forward to seeing this site being used by more students.
Actually wot am I saying?? I wouldnt mind helping out.
Hey hey, an introduction, I’m Kate from LMU and I’m a new administrator for the SLIC website.
Currently a lot of work is going on behind the scenes so watch out for developments on the site! Meanwhile happy browsing and get chatting on those forums!